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How Internalised Racism Affects You Long Term
Internalising Racism

How Internalised Racism Affects You Long Term

With everything that’s going on around the world and many Asians are experiencing heighten racism because of COVID-19, there’s never been a more important time to practice some self love and reflect on ourselves. Many of us may not realise but we may have internalised a lot of racism ourselves – which has negative long term effects.

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[00:00:27] Have you ever wished your eyes were bigger or wanted people to know that you were a lesbian? This week on LEMON. Buckle down, stay seated and don’t move because we’re getting uncomfortable and talking about internalized racism. Each week we dissect the conversations that Asian millennials should be having. My name is Philip Kooch and you’re listening to LEMON.

[00:01:01] Hello and welcome to another episode of LEMON. And yes, the show does sound a bit different this week, but you can think of it as a little Orsa upgrade, LEMON 2.0. As always, you’re joined by Philip, which is me, and then also Thomas Tan. That’s me. And you definitely had a haircut after the restricted trick that launching onto the show today. I want to find out, you know, ICE is finally about to be over.

[00:01:25] And, you know, throughout the whole ice isolation, there’s been a merge for different types of people. So, you know, you got the workout type. Got the self. Can’t type the person. I’ll got the couch potato. Oh, you just got the alcoholic, which is me. I want to start off the show by finding out what type of person are you, Tom?

[00:01:41] I am the couch potato. But to be honest, have I really changed before and after I started? I mean, I couch potato pretty much before and after. Does.

[00:01:49] Does being a couch potato make you want to become, I guess, like more of an active person after I say is over? Not really. During its isolation when I first start. I really want to. I was really determined becoming the workout type of person, you know. I started off also with doing virtual workouts every every day or with a 45 on line. But then gradually it turns who walks only. And now I’m just like a caterpillar. Like, I don’t do anything at all now. Why? What happened? Why do we let motivate at the very start? Or it just kind of stopped. You know what? I was so much of a vet at the start. I was gonna be a like and I’m gonna have a full transformation. And then when Arthur ISO’s over, people are going to recognize me. But of course, I got lazy.

[00:02:31] But look, the amount of times I’ve had you say that you’ve got to go through a transformation.

[00:02:36] I know you’d be a millionaire, but this week on the show, we’ve got a very important conversation and we’re joined by Asami. Q Okay. Hopefully that’s how you pronounce the name. I did ask her a couple of times how to pronounce it, so hopefully I’ve a stats. She owns a blog called Just Shapes and Sound and she’s very passionate about the Asian mental health and Asian community. So this week on the show, we have a very important conversation with her about internalized racism. And believe or not, she did not know what internalized racism was until I had this conversation with her. Tom, do you know anything about internalized racism?

[00:03:12] No, I don’t. It just isn’t like, you know, when people have a specific racial dating type, like, for example, I only date this kind of. Right.

[00:03:20] Is that generalized? Yes. Is that it? So that’s that’s one type of internalized racism, though. The other examples which we will go. Which will we’ll discuss later in the show with her. Is one of it is like who the hell like? You know, China has like, you know, a lot of a lot of bad rep of said, you know, people buying stuff here and then sent off to China. So, you know, some Asian people, they want to make it very clear to you, like it’s like the Caucasian people that, you know, look, I’m not that kind of Chinese. I’m like a cool Asian. What I can say is that it’s it’s really funny because, you know, we talk a lot about racism externally, you know, people, you know, doing racist things towards us. But actually, I think that the most important conversation we need to have about racism is that, you know, internally we’ve internalized racism a lot growing up. And this reminded me back in, I guess, union stuff for my mother, myself, personally, I remember I really want people to know that I wasn’t like an international student, that I was like an Aussie born, Aussie born Australian, and that, you know, that I’m different, I’m cool. And that used to always, like, put on in a very thick Australian accent. Not that my accent is very strange anyways, but you just stuff like that.

[00:04:31] And having a conversation with Asami made me really realize that I have a lot of work to do on myself because, you know, I think once we can reflect and know what the issue is with ourselves, then we can go out telling other people who are doing or assisting. So was us that, you know, it’s not okay to to do racist things. And I think the Asian community, especially in Australia, in America, we like to distance myself a lot from our Asian you know, our Asian community. And that’s because there’s so much sushi right now. There’s so much going on towards China right now. We we yeah, we want to keep a distance and then we internalize all that racism was a self. And and in this interview, you know, we talk about how intolerance and racism has really bad long term effects on yourself. And some of that has to do with work as well. You’re not being too progressed at work hating how you look, for example, and yet choosing who you love, like how you mentioned earlier. And it’s just. Yes, to such such an important conversation to have. And and I’m so glad that we had this interview with Asami who gave us so much insightful discussion. So he has Asami.

[00:05:43] And I said, so tell me, what is a music therapist? Because that sounds like when I first I’ve came across a man and music therapist in TV shows before, but when I came across your profile, I was like. Music therapy is real.

[00:05:57] Yeah, right.

[00:05:59] But if they actually exist, you just tell us, like, what’s the difference between, I guess, like a traditional therapist and music therapies?

[00:06:08] Yeah, sure. So a music therapist is in Australia where a recognised allied health professional. So we kind of sit alongside, like speech therapist, physiotherapist, occupational therapist. And essentially what that means is we are therapists like we’re trained in therapy, but we have the additional use of music to help us engage our clients. So we’re an allied health profession because where there’s a big body of research and evidence based behind our practice, which is really lucky for us. But we’re a little bit different from like a sound healer, you know. So sometimes music therapist has that connotation that we use music to heal. And like you sound in singing bowls and I find all that kind of stuff really beautiful. But music therapy itself is quite kind of like an evidence based clinical approach to using music to help people.

[00:07:10] So I’m really interested. So when a patient comes to see you. Is it like the traditional therapists where you you know, you talk to them and you try to get in to because in their heads and see what’s happening there? But also you use music to aid. Is that is that right? Am I right in that thinking?

[00:07:27] Yeah. So what’s interesting about music therapists is there’s actually only about 400 of us in Australia. But we work across a really broad range of places. So most people work in hospitals or special schools or aged care facilities. But for me, I’ve always worked with young people kind of in the mental health trauma sector. So with me, a lot of young people, you know, they’re not really into, like, talking about their feelings. Like, you know, it can be a real barrier to accessing therapy. But then in terms of music therapy, I’m sure you’ve had experiences like this, too. But it’s like you don’t want to talk about what’s going wrong for you. But you’re like, I just listened to this song and this song will explain everything that I’m feeling. Yeah. And so then we can listen to music together and then we talk about the songs. So we’re kind of like processing emotions and thoughts and feelings. But it’s not it’s not as confronting as chit chat, if you know what I mean.

[00:08:27] Yeah. It’s kind of like you can just like a hit. While this is how I feel, this song kind of like explains how I feel. Just listen to this. I don’t want to lie. I have to start from out for myself. Yeah.

[00:08:38] And what’s what’s really interesting about music is that music affects all different parts of the brain. So when you either listen to music or play music, it naturally helps to relax the body and regulate the body, like through your breathing, in through your heartbeat. And so what you find is people come in for a music therapy session and they’ll be like, I don’t want to talk, I’m just going to play this song. But then we’ll play the song, listen to the song, and then it’s like forty five minutes of talking talk based therapy. So it kind of opens up to a lot of talking. And that’s just in my case. Some other people have really different experiences.

[00:09:17] And one of the things that I get sick, you’re very passionate about is about, you know, the mental health in the Asian community and you do have a blog called Just Shapes and Sounds. So just tell me a bit about that. So what is what was the reason for starting a blog and writing about Asian Mental Health Show?

[00:09:35] Well, it’s a long story, but let me give you, like, little titbits. So for the last five years, like I said, I’ve been working in mental health, in the community, in trauma sectors. And what’s really interesting is this is only in the context of young people. But there weren’t that many Asian Australian young people who presented to our service. And across across the board, in terms of youth mental health, there aren’t really that like Asian Australians don’t have that much engagement with mental health services. But then the ones that did present, I notice that they kind of fell through the cracks a little like our services weren’t really catching them, like it’s like our communication styles a little different or something. So people would fall through the cracks and then they just kind of disappear and we would be like, oh, that guy we haven’t seen in four months, I will move on to the next client. So that was happening. And then in another area in my life, like much less acute situations, I had a lot of my Asian friends. I’m in my 30s at the moment. So, you know, people like really struggling with their careers and not quite kind of getting the right psychology support and really struggling, you know. And then I was like, okay, so no one’s talking about. Health for Asian Australians. Let’s do something.

[00:10:59] And that’s really that’s really interesting, because you mentioned that, you know, the way that Asian people communicate is different to other people. So how how is it different and why is it different? Is it because of how they’re raised or.

[00:11:16] So an example of how it was different was like so I worked in a real crisis setting, like really crisis, you know, people coming off the street into our service. And we would have instances of young people like banging on the windows and like screaming and yelling and being like, you’ve got to help me. Whereas some of our Asian clients, they’d be like, oh, I don’t want to be a burden on the service, you know, like I feel like other people need more help than me. Kind of like these real typical like I don’t want to be a burden. And I think that’s a big thing for East Asian communities, you know, so. So then I think like from a Caucasian worker’s perspective, like, are you going to help the person screaming at you in your face? Or are you gonna help the person that’s like, I don’t need that much help. I’m like, okay, I’m okay sleeping on the street tonight, you know? So I think it’s like a presentation style.

[00:12:16] There’s a lot. Yeah. I love that you recognize that because I definitely agree. I think Asian people, the way we communicate and we definitely do like to not be a burden to people. I think we I get that. But the other interesting thing I want to know is, you know, how did you recognize this is our health system in Australia? Has it? Have they recognize, you know, the Asian people need to be treated differently and they get sick? We need to be more proactively reached out to them.

[00:12:48] This is something I’ve been thinking a lot about and I’ve done a lot of like reading and looking at journal articles and things. And what’s kind of interesting is. I think there’s a lot of conversation about, OK, we’ve got to reach different communities and we’ve got to make sure our services are translated into different languages and we’ve got to make sure our pamphlets are in Mandarin and Vietnamese. But I think it’s a bit different. That’s not the issue I like as the like Asian Australians. It’s not really the language that’s the barrier to us engaging in mental health services. It’s like the attitudes and the perspectives that a little bit different. And, you know, I know people who go to therapy who are Asians and they go to therapy, but then they like actually, I don’t tell my psychologist anything about my Asian family. I just talk about like my work problems, though, because they feel like the therapist wouldn’t understand the family. The Asian family dynamics. But it’s like that’s such a huge part of your life like that that really feeds into your mental health family. So, yeah, if that makes sense.

[00:14:01] That’s what’s so interesting. Is it. Is there any, like, statistics on like how many I guess like vs.. I guess a Caucasian person or any other person. Other Asian. How likely are Asian people met. I would reach out to seek mental health support. Is there such a statistic around that?

[00:14:22] I am pretty sure there are. And I do not know them off the top of my head. But it’s like very much a fact that Asian Australians don’t seek mental health support at all. Like our engagement as a demographic, reaching out to services is super low across the field except for acute mental health. So like if you’re having an acute mental health problem, like, that’s not gonna to it doesn’t matter what race you are, you know. So then you say Asians in the acute setting. But in terms of just like normal day to day psychology or mental health services, we’re very, very low. But our suicide rates are high, which is pretty scary.

[00:15:10] Yeah. The other thing that just I guess as you’re speaking, it kind of reminded me when my dad had to go see a psychologist and it reminded me of the situation when my mom the first thing she responded to that was, no, he’s not he doesn’t need to see a psychologist, psychologist are for people who aren’t all there. And, you know, that sort of you know, that’s sort of commentary. Is there a particular reason why, I guess in the Asian community why mental health is so look down upon them?

[00:15:40] It’s interesting, isn’t it? I’ve really been thinking a lot about this and thinking in terms of my own family as well. Like a lot of similar attitudes. Like I you just need to push through. Like in Japanese we call it gumba, like just to try harder. Just grit your way through. And I think there’s like a lot of different things that play like one. I think, you know, in terms of East Asian cultures, there’s a lot of stuff about like bad spirits and bad energy that are coming into the body that make people crazy and give them mental illness. So there’s like those kind of real old stories that we’re grappling with. But then at the same time, I think we have to remember that this idea of mental health was coined in the West. It’s a Western. It’s a white centric thing. You know, it’s like Freud made it up and we created this whole system around it. So maybe it’s not just that Asians don’t like to engage in mental health services, but it’s like maybe we just think about it differently, because if you look at traditional Chinese medicine, you know, all the organs relate to different emotions. So it’s not like we don’t like talking about emotions or feelings. It’s just that we kind of experience the world in a different way. I think that’s what I think.

[00:17:05] And I also think it’s it’s one of those things that because you can’t see it, it’s not there. And that I hotsy like, you know, say that when it you can’t see it because like with other medical conditions, you can see it. You can see what is doing to your body and, you know, your body shuts down, stuff like that. But when it comes to some mental health issues, it’s not always visible and you can’t always see it in that person.

[00:17:28] Exactly. Like, do you have a broken arm or, you know, do you have anxiety? It’s different. And I think Asian coaches, we pride ourselves on being very quiet and stoic and, you know, like that that’s similar I kind of thing. Like just you’re very quiet and you process all your emotions so that you can go out and fight and do your thing.

[00:17:52] Sure. This whole covered, I guess, period. And you’re the one thing I’ve been noticing is that, you know, I guess like there’s a lot of commentary about China at the moment, you know, but you, the US president, saying that it’s a Chinese disease and that, you know, he’s like literally picking picking on Chinese reporters or Asian looking, Asian looking reporters and just you much making on these racist remarks towards them. And the one thing I noticed is that there’s a few people that I know who are Asian and they’re kind of like trying to like, I guess like make it clear that they’re not that type of Asian. And that kind of makes sense.

[00:18:29] Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And then I’m not a mainlander. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

[00:18:35] And so I guess, like with the rising tensions between China and the rest of the world, a lot of Asian people are making it very clear that, you know, you know, they push on to me like it’s not my problem. I’m I’m I’m not Chinese. I’m just an Asian, you know? And so I came across a blog and you read about internalized racism. So tell me a bit about return or, you know, internalized racism and what is it?

[00:19:02] Yeah, sure. Right. This is juicy.

[00:19:08] So internalized racism is this experience of adopting and absorbing like racist views and beliefs and values. So, for example, like, if you’re an Asian person like me, I grew up in Australia. I grew up in a very, very white neighbourhood, very, very white school. It’s like I started to absorb racist views. And then I, I kind of internalized them and turned them towards myself.

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[00:21:20] Yeah, we did. Well, it’s interesting because I think I’ve seen shows that obviously a crime drama is kind of Southern Gothic almost vibe to it. But I haven’t seen one with a queer laid before, which I’m actually quite excited about.

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[00:21:46] I didn’t want to be Asian. I wake up every day wishing I didn’t look the way I did. And it’s like internalized racism is not racism is like external people perpetrating violence and oppression onto us or people of colour. Whereas internalized racism is how we like, oppress and attack ourselves from the inside out. And it’s very, very subtle and it works on so many layers.

[00:22:13] So an example of that. Could it be. For example, if I want to get cosmetic surgery at home, I surgeon, I want to look you know, I want to have a tall nose. I want a westernise nose. I want my eyes to be big. Are that sort of thing. Is that is that considered internalized racism?

[00:22:30] I would say so. I mean, I’m sure it kind of depends on the individual about why they want to. But I think if they dug a little bit into their system, like, why do I want to change my nose to be taller and why do I want my eyes to be bigger than it probably comes from, like, you know, like white white beauty ideals. Whereas. Yeah. Because, you know, people always like Asian eyes a small bit. It’s like they’re only small compared to Caucasian, I guess.

[00:23:03] Yeah.

[00:23:03] But the thing is, I’m not saying I guess like all religions, all interracial relationships are like this, but there are some people who only date, like only Asian people, HPV, early day Caucasian people, because they feel like Asian people aren’t good enough. And stuff like that is that is an example of internalized racism, because I do know a few people who aren’t like, yeah, I know a lot of people like that, too.

[00:23:28] And it’s like, you know, like you often hear, oh, I just don’t know why, but like, I don’t know why. But I really like Asian guys, like, I just can’t put my finger on why. It’s like little I can put my finger on it for you. It’s like you just you’ve just been taught that just like particular Western look is what is the best look. And so that’s what you’re drawn to you.

[00:23:53] And that’s interesting. And so all the other situation I just thought of was, would this be considered racism or internal racism? So you see, for example, a group of Chinese people buying formula milk and then and then you pass another group of people and you make it very trying to, you know, given that look to make them should make sure that they know that you’re not that Chinese, but mainland Chinese. Is that considered racism or internalized this?

[00:24:23] You know what? This is exactly the situation I experienced at the airport when I was buying Tim Tams. And like a group of like tourists, Chinese tourists were also buying them. And then I saw like some white people. And then I just pretended I wasn’t buying Tim Tams to be like, well, I’m not like, you know, like that’s extreme. That’s not me. I live here at any debate in terms. But okay. So for me, I think it’s a bit of both. Like one, I don’t want to be considered. I don’t want to be like that kind of Asian. And I want to show white people that I’m a safe Asian. I’m different, you know, but at the same time, I think like amongst us as Asians is all these different bits of racism, too. Like, I think Japanese people have always been racist towards Chinese people. So I think there’s two things at play there. Racism and that internal racism.

[00:25:20] Yeah, definitely. Definitely. And, you know, it’s definitely very common in Asia. You know, some countries think that a bit in the high country, but. The other thing I did want to touch on is, you know, because, you know, you mentioned that internalized racism is something that, you know, you build up, going up. So what are the long term effects of, you know, having internalized racism? How does it affect your life long term?

[00:25:47] That’s a great question. I don’t I like I feel like. You know, essentially, at the end of the day, they internalized racism, makes you live in a bit of shame. And you know that you’re not really happy with yourself. So I think you you’ll never quite have the relationships that you want to like. You’ll pick a partner based on what you think is attractive, not what you actually feel is attractive deep down. Or you’ll you’ll never quite show your friends everything about your culture. So then you’re friends with people who don’t really know everything about you. So you’re never, like, really fully seen or heard, you know? And I think that that’s not really like I think that in itself can have a lot of ramifications long term. Like, you will always be kind of lonely. You won’t really be living your truth, whatever that means. And I don’t think you’ll be that confident either.

[00:26:43] You wrote a few different interesting points. And I think we don’t think about how much it really affects us. But when you write it like this, it seems very tangible. So one of things you wrote was, you know, not moving to an executive level of leadership at work because, you know, because it feels, you know, worthy awakening souls up to work of all those sort of roles. The other one that I thought was really interesting was, you know, struggling with your body image and physical self acceptance. And that’s quite clear. You know, obviously, you want more. You don’t like you because you’re too Asian, are too small. And then lastly, the other one that you wrote was having many personas, which I can definitely relate. I find myself playing a more Berghain accent, a lot more heavy Australian accent, sometimes depending on who I am.

[00:27:31] Yeah. I do the same. Definitely.

[00:27:37] And I guess on a personal level for myself. One of the things I’m done with growing up was. I guess, like, you know, I’ve struggled with being too Asian, and I always tried to disassociate myself being Asian and, you know, growing up I was I grew up in Asian neighbourhood and everything. My school was Asian. So I didn’t want to be Asian. And so, you know, growing up into my adulthood, now, I do find it that, you know, because I don’t accept my Asian this I find it really hard to just, like, speak to some Caucasian people and find it. I feel like, you know, I’m not whether or not it’s also. And it just it just it just makes the conversation really hope. I’m just anxious to talk to them. Yeah. No. Definitely. I think so. So that brings me to my next question. So, you know, how do we deal with, you know, how do we fix this long term issue of having internalized versus what does that look like?

[00:28:38] Ok. I think that there are a few ways to approach it, but I think first and foremost, self reflection, self reflection, stumbler, bit self reflection is really important. I think kind of like what you just demonstrated, like, you know, you’re like. Sometimes I find it hard to talk to Caucasian people that I don’t know. And then you reflect and you’re like, why do I feel that way? Like, what makes me feel unworthy to do so well makes me anxious to do so. So really engaging in that process of just questioning and asking yourself why, why, why, why did I learn this? But what does it represent I think is a really important way and really crucial to just working through your own internalized racism. I think also Asian representation is really important as well. So increasing the Asian representation in your life. And for me, it happened not by choice. I got pushed out on TV when it changed to digital and I was still a student and I couldn’t buy new TV. And I was like, oh, looks like I have to curate my own shows. And that’s how I started to pick out different shows. And I started to see a lot more like Asian characters and Asian faces on the screen. And I would say that that was quite pivotal, actually. And then I just naturally started picking out different Asian shows. And then what I found was like my eyes kind of shifted, you know, like what you see is often what you become and what you become familiar and what you find safety in. And so then you just start to become used to seeing a lot more Asian faces. So when you look in the mirror, you’re not like, whoa, there’s there’s an Asian face. Like your eyes are used to seeing Asians again.

[00:30:36] That makes them nerds. It’s really great because in recent years, we’ve had so much more Asian representation in mainstream media. It’s definitely there’s definitely a movement happening right now. But there are just like sommes there are some movies and some media out there who would do to still stereotype Asian behaviour in Asian culture. Are those sort of things dangerous to know to an Asian community, especially when you’re young and vulnerable?

[00:31:07] Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I think when I was growing up, you know, like the Asian characters who won, you’d never see one. And then when you did, they were always like the weird nerdy DBE, like the hangover. You know, like they came in and they came in. Jim Jones. They don’t think, you know, I like that kind of character. Was the Asian person. All Lucila. But was like the only option.

[00:31:33] And Jackie Chan. And Jackie Chan. Yeah.

[00:31:37] And then it has to be like real all the martial art stuff all like, well, the Korean dramas. And it’s kind of changes a little bit. Right. But I think. I think like. I remember this many, many conversations at high school about where we would talk about which celebrity who looks like who. And then everyone would be like I sometimes like they’re sometimes like that. My personality is like this and blah, blah, blah. There’s a lot to talk about. But when it came to me, it would be like, oh, you look like the girl from high five to her. Yeah, that’s a girl, Kathleen. Yeah. So there’s like only one character that you can be. And that means that there’s only like one reality that you can be, you know, whereas now with a crazy rich Asians like to all the boys I’ve loved for like everyone, there’s so many different narratives. And so we can kind of pick and choose. It’s not like if we’re not like if we’re not like Kathleen from high five, then we’re a strange Asian. It’s like there’s so many different kinds of Asians that you could possibly be. So then you feel a lot more normal. And I think that’s important when you’re a young person, especially when you’re trying to find your identity.

[00:32:55] And I think with I guess like with Asian Australians and Asian Americans and British Asians, you know, we great we kind of have like it’s like a like identity issue when it comes to the media, because I guess if you if you’re for example, you’re Japanese, right. Your parents are Japanese. So if you were to watch Japanese dramas, do you identify with those families because essentially you are Asian Australian. So how much is that? How did how did you get into fi with that sort of media?

[00:33:27] Yeah, that’s such a good point, because when I was trying to kind of increase Asian representation, I was like, oh, I’m Japanese, so therefore I should watch Japanese shows. But then culturally, there’s such a big divide, like we don’t fit into our countries of birth, like we grew up in the West, you know. So it it was it’s really stories like fresh off the boat, like everyone’s fresh off the boat and the family law like that immigrant experience that really kind of captures our experience that we can really relate and resonate with, if that makes sense. Like the Japanese dramas are hard culturally. It’s really different, but they’re interesting.

[00:34:08] Yeah. And do you think, you know, with the rise of Cape Hop and J. Pop and, you know, Asian culture in general? Well, Asian Australians is is, you know, buying into that sort of media. Is it more harmful? Is it more helpful? Given given, you know, because like, you know, like we mentioned earlier, you know, we’re not 100 per cent directly related to that culture, even though we are Asian. And, you know, that’s that sort of makes sense. Christine? Yeah.

[00:34:43] Yeah, I think so. I feel like visually, it’s really important to see people who look like you, you know, in all facets, and to also not be not be portrayed as like the doing the nerdy type that like the face that you embody is also like depicted as really beautiful, whether that’s in a real kind of cable setting or whether that’s more like a Hollywood kind of setting. Yeah. But I also think, like, because there’s more Asian celebrities and famous people like those people are starting to talk about Asian representation and what’s so important about it. So then everyone’s awareness is slowly increasing as well, which is which I think really helps. Like. As a whole society, we’re all kind of learning and growing at the same time.

[00:35:34] Yeah. So we’re talking about it. I guess to bring it back now. No, we’re talking about Asia median Asian representation. And the reason why it’s so important is because it helps with, I guess, accepting who you are and accepting your own culture. Is that fair to say that?

[00:35:52] Yeah. And your own experience that you know, this so many Asian Australians, Asian Americans, as he said, British Asians like there’s so many of us that are diaspora yet.

[00:36:06] I don’t think the awareness of that is really that. Like, brought to the forefront of that makes sense, like we’re still like an other, you know, we’re still a bit strange. We don’t fit into either world. But actually, there’s so many of us that are kind of mixed culturally.

[00:36:28] Well, thank you so much for being on the show today. It’s you know, we talk about a lot about, you know, internalized racism. So it’s really great to have you on the show to talk about this, because it’s such an important issue with know special what’s going on with the world right now. I think we have to love ourselves more than ever. Yes.

[00:36:47] Thank you so much. It’s almost like. Yeah, so you go zonings. Yes.

[00:36:57] I was just going to say a thing. Yeah, it’s going to be like a rough and interesting time after this. Like with all the tense relationships with China. And then you got Trump calling it the Chinese virus. Like, I think it’s going to be difficult. And I don’t think we need to add to that experience by not feeling worthy ourselves. Like I think we can at least manage our own internal feelings so that we can navigate some interesting times ahead.

[00:37:28] You also have on your website some links to some, you know, some therapists who are, I guess, like Asian friendly. Is that the right word?

[00:37:38] Well, they actually are Asian. Australian.

[00:37:41] Yes. So they will be able to relate to you more. So that’s on your Web site. So would definitely there’s a link to that not show notes, but. Yeah. Thank you so much for joining us on the show today, Asami.

[00:37:51] Thank you for having me. It’s so much fun.

[00:37:54] Thank you, Asami, for joining us this week on LEMON. I hope everyone got something out of that interview and do some self reflecting, you know. I think it’s so important to constantly reflect on ourselves and see how we can contribute multiple world and help ourselves from points to trap. Well, thank you for listening to us for another week this week. And if you liked what you listened, then subscribe to us on a podcast, a course or call from Spotify. But Morgan could find us and leave us a feedback. We would love to know how you thought, what you thought of the show and how it could improve and otherwise. We’ll see you next week.

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